Skip to: content, navigation

Reserve Not Reached

The bidding on this auction did not reach the seller's reserve price.

Bid History

Site Access Verified? Yes

We've checked that the seller has access to modify the site for sale. More info.

Telephone Verified? Yes

The seller has linked and verified a phone number against their user account. More info.

Feedback Profile? 100%

The seller has 100% positive feedback. More info.

Seller Profile

Username:
555 (100%)
Location:
Private Message:
Message me

Poker Rakeback PAS account for sale

Sold with existing $2500 per month income in place

  • URL: http://rakebackcapital.net/
  • Established: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:00:00 GMT
  • Uniques/Month: 1,200
  • Page views/month: 1,900
  • Monthly Revenue (USD): 2,500
  • Google Pagerank: 2
  • Listed: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 05:21:47 GMT

Description:

First of all let me be clear to the few people who know me from other forums, I’m selling this site on behalf of a friend and am fully authorized to do so – I will be handling all the questions, negotiations and eventually the transfer, but he will be taking the payment.

This package includes the following:

1) Rakebackcapital.com – this is a rakeback skin powered by pokeraffiliatesolutions.com

2) Rakebackcapital.net – this website markets the .com site and used to market a few non rakeback offers, which some of them are still linked.

3) Existing Rakeback Accounts and Trackers

These websites are not the best looking, have major code bloat etc, however the real value of this sale is in the existing player base.

Here is the past 6 month’s income:

February: $1,863.75
March: $1660.23
April: $1220.83
May: $2237.67
June: $2,982.12
July: $2,501.42

The big jump is due to increased pay rates at one of the main sites promoted, this is a permanent pay increase.

This income is not dependent on the site getting new sign ups as the way this works is a portion of players rake is paid to the owner each month.

As far as clients are concerned, they believe their rakeback affiliate is rakebackcapital.com, and are being paid and getting customer support from them. What they don’t see is that behind the scenes everything is managed by pokeraffiliatesolutions.com who handles all the rakeback payments, players support etc.

The selling price of this package $22,000. We are not accepting offers for less, nor for that matter are we accepting offers for more.

The selling price is equivalent to 8.55 months current income based on the 3 month average, and 10.43 months income based on the 6 month average.
Details on Affiliate Deals:

Each month the owner will be able to cash out their earning by requesting them from the admin area. Several options for payment are available such as Paypal, Check, bankWire -or- Poker Account Transfers to: Cake Poker, Carlos Poker, Eurobet, Full Tilt or Ultimate Bet. Earning become available by the 15th of the month for the previous months commission

The owner earns at least 5% of the players rake at each site, with a couple sites the pay rate being as high as 10% for that particular site.

Here is an example:

At Full Tilt Poker players receive 27% rakeback out of the 33% PAS gives us to work with.

A player sets up a rakebackcapital.com account, creates a Full Tilt Poker Tracker and then rakes $1000. He will get $270 rakeback and the owner of rakebackcapital will get $60 – the difference of the 33% - 27% paid to player.

There reputation is solid in the industry as many large rakeback affiliates are subs through them or use there software. They are operated by RakeTracker.com which also has a great reputation in the industry.

Accepted Payment Methods = Escrow.com, wire transfer, check or money order.

If escrow.com is used the fee will be split. If check or money order is used the transfer will be complete upon funds clearing.

The following screenshots are being uploaded:

Opening page of the admin taken on July 31

A stats report showing income for dates Feb 1 to July 31

An analytics report showing traffic for rakebackcapital.net

Note: no analytics or traffic details are known for the .com side of the site where players sign up, log in etc. The original owners plan was to do his SEO type work from the .net and his flashier stuff from the .com

My recommendation to the new owner would be to get this site redesigned and coded as it has a lot of potential for new sign ups, in its current state the sign ups are small, about 10 per month with only a couple adding trackers, but with some attention this could go way up. Again the real value in this site is the current player volume/income.

Revenue Details:

Rakeback Earnings paid by Poker Affiliate Solutions (Also known as Rake Tracker).

Traffic Details:

71% Search Engines
23% Referring Sites
6% Direct

Questions to the Seller

  1. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:00:26 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #1

    I received several private messages right soon after listing this site and there were some similar questions asked, so I'll respond to those here.

    Q. What is the reason for the sale?

    The owner of this site is a professional poker player. Not in the sense that you see on TV etc, but in that he has made his sole source of income for years playing $30/$60 fixed limit cash games online. We became friends through online conversations at a popular poker forum then later MSN.

    I'm a full time poker affiliate with dozens of websites, but way back when was also a poker player till my income from affiliating reached the point where I no longer needed to play (this was a long time ago). I had discussed with Joe (that the owner of the site) how much burn out is involved in poker and how he should have a back up plan for when the game becomes a grind to him, or if he has an extended bad run. It took me some convincing but I got him to set up this site.

    At first he was really excited about it and hired some people to add news articles, and did some marketing etc. The site was going well and then he kind of just lost interest in it. For a solid 7-8 months now he hasn't done anything on the site.

    Recently he started getting staked in the upper limit games through a very well known online player and has had some great success but needs to share this with his backer. He's decided now to start building his roll up and saving so he can have the cash to play regularly in the big games. This is pretty much the reason for selling it. He was never all that interested in owning it in the first place, got excited for a while, lost interest, and now feels he would do better investing the cash he could get from selling in poker games.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  2. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:11:42 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #2

    Q. Is there any work that needs to be done to actually receive the commissions such as signing up for the different affiliate programs, or is that already setup and done from the admin area?

    This is all handled and part of the back end system.

    Q. How many affiliates is that ~$2500 a month coming from? The reason I ask is just to get a gauge for how stable that money is.

    I believe the question is how many players:
    The current database has 382 users who have signed up and created a rakebackcapital.com account. Glancing at the list its pretty clean with maybe 20 or so at the most being text or bogus accounts, and that's probably a high estimate. The new owner will have access from the admin to players first name, last name and email address. (This part is parenthesis is pass on info as everything else I've been able to personally verify - the admin does not show break down by player that I can find - when I just asked on messenger was told about a dozen players make up the bunk of the sites income/traffic)

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  3. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:01:06 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #3

    Is your friend's account one of the accounts?

    Posted by:
    jimmifli (100%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  4. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:48:36 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #4

    So this exisiting model relies heavily on 12 people for the bulk of the income? Is there any way to tell how the revenue is generate by the 380 or so users? Where are the people signing up from- is this tied to affliate sites? An obvious question would be- why don't you take it over? Do all poker sites offer rake back or is it just the sites you list on the website? I have played my share of on-line poker and like the concept.

    thanks-Chris

    Posted by:
    chfabi (0%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  5. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:41:00 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #5

    Hello,
    Im quite interested, the scarry fact is that about a Dozen or so accounts relies on the bulk of the revenue.
    Is it possible for a guest account to see the stats or account breakdowns?

    Posted by:
    chris07 (100%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  6. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:20:39 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #6

    Q: Is your friend's account one of the accounts?
    A: He does have an account but for the quoted 6 month income stats his account represents exactly $25.42 of the sites earnings. The only month his account was active in in 2008 was March. The reason he does not make up much of the volume is he is a high stakes prop well compensated by the poker rooms themselves earning much more than standard rakeback, so loss of volume from his personal play to a new owner is a non concern with him making up pretty much none of the volume.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  7. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:26:09 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #7

    Ok regarding how much income each player is earning. I've been able to export a report that shows the amount of rake each player has generated, I've removed the zeros. This doesn't tell the income per user but from the data it can be easily gauged.
    Reminder how this works: The amount the player rakes a percentage is paid back to them and a percentage is paid to the owner - here is a list the amount of rake stats by user:

    36767.99
    35126.42
    20299.08
    19062.71
    14991.63
    14338.84
    14204.98
    12472.52
    11872.34
    9523.37
    9378.56
    8770.38
    6263.14
    6221.04
    5696.08
    4065.06
    3467.92
    3131.55
    2805.58
    2413.58
    2310.98
    2177.58
    2062.08
    1910.85
    1595.21
    1590.22
    1585.49
    1503
    1364.22
    1273.84
    1270.47
    1259.01
    1242.29
    778.64
    707.69
    688.02
    647.89
    607.25
    555.02
    527.2
    491.32
    415.5
    400.1
    292.06
    248.15
    207.3
    195.17
    190.08
    179.73
    169.24
    166.21
    153.65
    149.58
    140.9
    99.76
    89.48
    86.39
    78.94
    78.88
    78.7
    68.59
    67.21
    64.36
    54.16
    48.15
    42.77
    26.87
    25.84
    25.71
    21.47
    19.7
    17.72
    16.74
    16.27
    15.9
    13.08
    12.43
    11.42
    10.94
    10.32
    10.22
    10.17
    8.37
    6.51
    4.93
    4.2
    2.9
    2.35
    2.16
    1.16
    1.13
    0.66
    0.19
    0.14
    0.03

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  8. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:30:10 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #8

    Q: Is it possible for a guest account to see the stats or account breakdowns?
    A: This is not possible because it would give the admin access to players personal info, the ability to edit info, account data and other sensitive features.

    I'm willing to gather whatever data is needed. This is a reason escrow is a good payment method because the buyer can confirm this data before payment is released.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  9. Posted date:
    Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:43:33 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #9

    June Stats:

    To break down the income a bit more:
    In June 2008, 43 players generated $37,131.04 worth of rake. There were 10 players who generated over $1000 in rake. Here are those stats:

    1) 9969.58
    2) 5084.97
    3) 2838.65
    4) 2677.64
    5) 2381.04
    6) 2302.02
    7) 1655.11
    8) 1623.12
    9) 1233
    10) 1225.27

    This is the reason the site is being sold for 8 months income as opposed to 18-24 months income. There is an element of risk with the top heavy volume, however the stats have been steady for 6+ with the same players consistently raking – even if one of two of the top players were lost the break even time frame is still quite reasonable, If a few more high volume players are picked up the break even is much faster. It’s a risk but all purchases are, I consider this one a good one based on the price.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  10. Posted date:
    Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:59:13 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #10

    Of the players you list 1-10, can you tell me how long they have each been customers? On the numbers you gave, rakebackcapital captures about 6% of that revenue is that correct???? This would mean that 1 player is generating 20% of the revenue????- Also, I want to specifically know how does a new player that is already on full tilt or one of the poker sites sign up for the service. All the rake back sites seem to address the new player fine- the real upside is getting players on already on poker sites to use the service. You also mention that the site is bloated....can you elaborate on that....

    Thanks

    Posted by:
    chfabi (0%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  11. Posted date:
    Thu, 07 Aug 2008 21:12:38 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #11

    Im wondering the same thing, on the site it says please contact us if you are an existing player for the next steps.. how dose that work?

    Posted by:
    chris07 (100%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  12. Posted date:
    Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:45:07 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #12

    As per the poker promotions staff, they say its not possible to recruit members all ready on the site.. they have to join one of the other poker sites, or close their main account.

    Posted by:
    chris07 (100%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  13. Posted date:
    Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:23:43 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #13

    This is a very tough sell if you cannot recruit existing players on existing sites.......I am interested but this needs to addressed throughly- otherwise your competing against getting people to sign up against the site themselves which is a pretty daunting task.

    Posted by:
    chfabi (0%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  14. Posted date:
    Sat, 09 Aug 2008 23:28:17 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #14

    Poker Sites do not offer players rakeback direct, they have to go through an affiliate to get it. This is a common situation: A player signed up at site before they knew about rakeback and now they email the poker room and affiliates and there unable to get it no matter what they do. Many end up switching and going to play at another poker site, and then in the future always sign up through a rakeback affiliate before joining a poker room.

    The positive side about the player not being able to change affiliates is that once you have a player on rakeback you have them forever. All a site needs is a handful of players who play for a living to make great money.

    One of the rakeback sites I own with a partner launched in January 2007 and is earning over $150,000 per year off about 1200 sign ups, about 300 of them ever were active and the income is top heavy with about 40 people making up most of the volume.

    I expect the stats of a site the age of the one listed here for sale are about normal for a rakeback site as poker rakeback affiliating is always about landing the big players and its a numbers game all sites will get them eventually.

    Anyways this pricing for this site is based off income that is established, and not off the sites potential, but I believe fully the site has a TON of potential.

    I think if I listed this for $25K it would of sold by now. I've had a bunch of serious offers ranging from $16K to $19K, I think people feel the need to negotiate thinking the site is listed at a price the seller would like to get but there must be negotiating room. This is truly not the case here - the site will not sell no matter what for less than $22K and there is not any pressure to sell.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  15. Posted date:
    Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:46:17 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #15

    I guess a huge question for you would be- why wouldn't you buy the site since you are so familiar with the dynamics of what is happening- frankly a bit puzzling especially if you already own a successful rakeback site.

    Posted by:
    chfabi (0%)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  16. Posted date:
    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:33:23 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #16

    "I guess a huge question for you would be- why wouldn't you buy the site since you are so familiar with the dynamics of what is happening- frankly a bit puzzling especially if you already own a successful rakeback site."

    This is a good question and there is a two part answer:
    I'm a bit tempted to purchase this just for the residual income - if I did I'd most likely close the site to new sign ups and just keep the income off the existing players which I'll explain in the second portion of the response. The reason I'm hesitant on doing this is I recently completed a six year process of climbing out of seven figure debt and am finally debt free. I've fixed up credit, paid off federal tax liens etc and am looking to purchase a home in Las Vegas where I'll need a decent six figure down payment for. I make good monthly income now but have little savings. I could afford this purchase but am kind of back and forth on if I will actually make it myself.

    The second part of the response relates to my current business:
    We compete with PAS rakeback sites on a very small scale. They are much much larger than us but we're not tiny either where the poker rooms write us off. Based on our volume we get a much higher rate with the poker rooms than PAS would provide us. Therefore for us it would not make sense to use a PAS system. We do over a million in annual rake volume (not much over but still over) and this earns us a decent rate on our own affiliate accounts. Even for affiliates of our size, which is not many, PAS is a great system. Our situation is unique though were we have ambitions to do 8 figure volumes in time so for us using a system like PAS does not make sense. When were doing eight figures we'll still be small compared to them but we'll be large enough were we are actually competing with them, plenty of room for competition in this multi billion dollar industry but its just not the type of purchase we'd be interested in for the business operation itself. For the residual aspect I am interested in it and have been back and forth on deciding if I should just purchase myself or continue seeking buyers.

    I do have financial interest in several sites using PAS and have nothing but great things to say about them. Its only the top 1 or 2% of affiliates I'd say would be better off going independent than using their back end. Were not in this range yet with our main business but plan to be in the future.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me
  17. Posted date:
    Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:49:23 GMT
    Actions:
    Comment ID:
    #17

    I am closing this auction. Its still for sale, but is no longer as described. If anyone is interested PM me.. The income will be a bit less but is now more secure and the price reflects accordingly. No further responses will be made to posts thread.

    Posted by:
    555 (100%) (seller)
    Private Message:
    Message me

Ask the Seller

To post a comment on this contest, please log in with your SitePoint username and password. If you don't have an account yet, you can create a new account for free.